Jude 14-15!

Start a Bible study, post your favorite verse, ask questions about the Bible.
g00dkn16ht
Settling In
Settling In
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:20 pm

Jude 14-15!

Postby g00dkn16ht » Sat Sep 06, 2008 6:00 pm

Hey,

I'll start! :-)

Jude 14-15(ESV) states, It was also about these that Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, "Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of his holy ones, to execute judgment on all and to convict all the ungodly of all their deeds of ungodliness that they have committed in such an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things that ungodly sinners have spoken against him."

Here we have a New Testament writer, (inspired by the Holy Spirit if you hold to that view which I do), that directly quotes from the Book of Enoch and states that Enoch "prophesied"!! Has anyone delved into this subject and read the Book of Enoch, along with other Biblical references to it, and have ideas as to how this could give insight into our future?

Matthew 24:36,37 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

Food for thought,
g00dkn16ht

User avatar
USAFA82
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 1517
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2008 6:43 pm
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Contact:

Re: Jude 14-15!

Postby USAFA82 » Sat Sep 06, 2008 10:43 pm

I've read Enoch once, but not deeply. I'll have to go back and read through it again. Thanks for getting this started. Now if we could just get some folks over here from the WCG forums....

g00dkn16ht
Settling In
Settling In
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:20 pm

Re: Jude 14-15!

Postby g00dkn16ht » Sun Sep 07, 2008 7:27 am

To put more context to this subject and what this passage in Jude is referring back to, here is the Genesis 6 passage where the days of Noah are described;

Genesis 6:1-4 (ESV) When man began to multiply on the face of the land and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of man were attractive. And they took as their wives any they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit shall not abide in man forever, for he is flesh: his days shall be 120 years." The Nephilim were on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of man and they bore children to them. These were the mighty men who were of old, the men of renown.

This is also what Peter was referring to in;

2 Peter 2:4-6 (ESV) For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to chains of gloomy darkness to be kept until the judgment; if he did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a herald of righteousness, with seven others, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; if by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to ashes he condemned them to extinction, making them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;

More later :-),
g00dkn16ht

User avatar
jal2
Cruncher
Cruncher
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:00 pm

Re: Jude 14-15!

Postby jal2 » Sun Sep 07, 2008 10:43 pm

re: Matthew 24:36,37 "But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father only. For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.

I've lost most of my notes on this passage (they were on VHS tape!), but there are some interesting discussions about this event, including these links I found while checking my memory: //www.wholebible.com/trumpets.htm & //www.messianic.ws/feasts.htm#H4.

When you look at the Jewish holidays (high holy days), all of them begin in the middle of the month, except for Rosh Hashanah, the Feast of Trumpets, which starts at the beginning of the month. A month is considered to have started when at least two reliable witnesses report to the high priest that they have observed the first sliver of the new moon, which can be a 3.5 day variance from the expected timing. As a result, Rosh Hashanah is sometimes referred to as the day which only the Father knows. Everyone who is paying attention knows the approximate time, or season, but not the exact moment.

As the passage above in Matthew indicates, we don't know the exact moment of Jesus' return, but as believers, we should know the season by the events that are occurring.

As for the 'catching away of the saints', that is a whole discussion in itself (pre, mid, or post-tribulation, and pre-wrath - the seven bowls of unpleasantness), including the possibility of multiple 'catching away' events. I find the above 3.5 day variance in the expected versus actual start of the holiday interesting, especially given the number of '3.5' events described in Revelations (the two witnesses are dead for 3.5 days, major events occur half way through the 7 year tribulation, etc).

A related discussion is the description of John measuring the temple, where he is not supposed to measure the outer courts. If you look at the temple mount in Jerusalem, It's possible to build a new temple, opposite the dome of the rock, with the dome of the rock occupying the space where the outer court should be. This is actually appropriate as the outer court was for the gentiles. One line of thought believes the tribulation will begin when the cornerstone is laid for the new Jewish temple.

Another related side discussion, the period between the start of Rosh Hashanah, and the end of Yom Kippur, is 10 calendar days, with the first and last day of the '8 day' event being 48 hours in duration. This can throw a wrench in trying to calculate when events are supposed to happen, but does support a 7 year period between the trumpets and atonement events. I also know that trumpets are blown at specific times during Rosh Hashanah, but I can't find my notes as to how many, or when they are blown.

User avatar
Diana G.
Veteran Cruncher
Veteran Cruncher
Posts: 287
Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2008 7:07 pm
Location: Oneida, New York

Re: Jude 14-15!

Postby Diana G. » Mon Sep 08, 2008 9:07 am

Good stuff! Thank you!!!!!

(I have had my hands full with God's work in Guild Wars, and I am Co-leader to our Monday night Bible Study we have on TeamSpeak at 7:30 Central.

If anyone is interested in joining in on TeamSpeak follow these directions:


http://christiansagainstcancer.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=57&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&start=30

and my name on there is Kyrel.

We have started listening to Jimmy DeYoung's podcasts about the end times and we have some that have no mic, and that is fine..they just show themselves as such with the "no mic" option.)


I look forward to more here on our forum as the Holy Spirit opens up the scriptures to us :icon_cool:

God Bless!
Image

g00dkn16ht
Settling In
Settling In
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:20 pm

Re: Jude 14-15!

Postby g00dkn16ht » Mon Sep 08, 2008 8:34 pm

jal2 wrote:As the passage above in Matthew indicates, we don't know the exact moment of Jesus' return, but as believers, we should know the season by the events that are occurring.


Hey jal2, A study of the end times can go in a lot of different directions and all are important to study. I think the context of what I was getting at has to do with the part of your post that I quoted. It has more to do with knowing the season or some events that might indicate the coming "New Moon" you mentioned. Paul has warned us of a coming deception that would be so great that it would even deceive the Elect, if that were possible. [Matthew 24:24] If indeed, there is one world religion during the end times, think of the magnitude of the deceptive events it would take to bring this to pass. It would certainly take more that just a charismatic political leader stepping onto the world stage.

So what I have been trying to search out is not necessarily what exact end time perspective is the most accurate, but what might be the actual signs of the season that would tell us it is truly approaching! So that's the reason for considering the importance of this passage in Jude and all that is connected to it. Is there something about the "days of Noah" in particular that will occur again and be a sure sign of the coming season and deception?

that's enough for now, :-)
g00dkn16ht

User avatar
jal2
Cruncher
Cruncher
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 12:00 pm

Re: Jude 14-15!

Postby jal2 » Sun Sep 14, 2008 2:03 pm

Some of my earlier research came across a link that may be more closely related to the original topic, but I don't know if this is a legitimate source, or just someone trying to sell books: Dr. Timothy J. Sakach, Ph.D.
http://www.innertech.com/blog/2008/03/1 ... ll-living/

Two other links from the above site:
http://www.innertech.com/blog/2008/04/3 ... -calendar/
http://www.elohimconnection.com/jm/

These discussions indicate that the confusion described in my prior post are due to using the Pharisee's (Babylonian) lunar calender instead of Enoch's calender. I'm curious to see what feedback others have about this source.

James

g00dkn16ht
Settling In
Settling In
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2008 3:20 pm

Re: Jude 14-15!

Postby g00dkn16ht » Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:18 pm

Great links! I haven't posted in several days, been a little preoccupied with the weather in Houston, I have a son there. But their fine, they live on the west side of city. I am reading the pages you linked and will post some more information later. Thanks!

reinhard
Novice Cruncher
Novice Cruncher
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:13 am

Re: Jude 14-15!

Postby reinhard » Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:25 am

Hi, this is a newbie here

I am not finding the book of Enoch in my copy of the apochrypha. What does Enoch prophesy and what does it have to do with the angels mingling with women and producing giants.
My very curious little girls started asking me questions about that and I thought I better brush up on this rather obscure reference.
I have heard various interpretations
1) That fallen angels actually had relationships with human women. This kind of begs the question of whether angels are spirits or if they have bodies and what the limits of our relationship with them is. I assume that is what you are referencing with "angels having left their first estate in 1 Peter". Also is there a difference between fallen angels and demons, the latter of which we know possess human beings and don't have physical bodies themselves.
2) The possessed human being were the ones who had relationships with human women. This begs the question of why this would produce giants and why this is not even continuing to occur today.

You have raised a lot of interesting questions I would like to learn more about.
He is not fool, if he would choose, to give the things he cannot keep to buy what he can never loose - Jim Elliot

Image


Return to “Bible Study & Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron